Lucid dreaming

[Robert L. Vaessen]

Rob -

On Sunday, March 17, 2002, at 08:07 , Rob Garrity wrote:

> On Monday, March 18, 2002, at 02:29  AM, Robert L. Vaessen wrote:
>
> > If the consciousness can reside outside the physical, what are 
> > its limitations when outside the brain. Do the 
> > limitations/laws we've been talking about change when the 
> > consciousness is free from the brain/body? Are the limitations 
> > imposed by the capabilities/limitations of our brain?
> >
> > Our ability to comprehend the matrix is limited by a series of 
> > laws/limitations. Do those laws differ depending on the state 
> > of our consciousness? Experiencing the matrix from within 
> > (inhabiting a brain), or observing the matrix from outside 
> > (Out of body)?
> Good questions these. As I mentioned in one of my past 
> messages, I didn't see anything in your theory that interfered 
> with the main tenets of several religions. Rebirth suggests 
> that the soul transmigrates. Could that simply be 'us' freed of 
> our mortal coil and reinvested along another nodal pathway 
> wrapped in another 'life'.

Certainly. As I mentioned earlier, these are not my original 
ideas. The ideas we've been discussing include components of 
religious and metaphysical teachings from as far back as man can 
remember.

My ideas (the ideas I've been espousing) certainly reflect 
religious teachings regarding the soul, transmigration, 
reincarnation, etc...


> > Have you ever been unconscious?
>  Yes. When I was little I was playing trapeze artist in the 
> milking parlor and fell and hit my head. I walked into the bulk 
> tank room and next thing I knew I was dreaming. Then I picked 
> myself off of the floor there. I don't know how long I was out. 
> But I was definitely out.
> > What's the difference between dreaming and unconscious?
Actually, I believe that traditional definitions discern a 
difference between dreaming and unconscious. Once while skating 
(without skates) on Pickerel lake, I hit a crack with my foot, 
fell forward and whacked my head. The next thing I remember was 
someone helping me get up. I had no recollection of how long I 
was laying on the ice. According to Chuck (Eileens ex.) I was 
out for about two minutes.

Traditional definitions describe unconsciousness as having no 
conscious recollection of self.  Dreaming is seen as a 
semiconscious state, there is some knowledge of self during 
dreams. If you think about lucid dreaming you'll see how 
dreaming can easily be grouped into the conscious state.

Perhaps you were unconscious, and then slipped into a dream state.

> I would say very little. I think we lose our ability to 
> remember our dreaming based on the severity of the 
> unconsciousness. I know when I had my major operations (4 all 
> together, two heart, two neck) that going under and waking up 
> involves some light dreaming slipping in and coming out.
Anesthetics used during surgery usually suppress the conscious 
mind, and no dreaming typically occurs. Electroencephalographs 
of brains clearly show differences between the dreaming mind, 
and a truly unconscious state. The dream state you experienced 
occurs in the manner you described it.  Dreaming just prior to 
unconsciousness, and just prior to consciousness.

> Here's a thought. Brain scans identify the so-called REM states 
> as the time when the mind dreams. What if it is only the time 
> when the mind passively records dreams. In other words it's a 
> symptom of dreaming, not dreaming directly. Can't answer this, 
> but I wonder if science can either.
> > What about lucid dreaming?
> I've never dreamed of Lucy... Or Jeannie for that matter...
REM is eye movement during the dream state. Dreaming is not 
always accompanied by REM, but REM only occurs during dreaming. 
REM is an easy way to detect whether a person is in a dream 
state. No equipment necessary.

Lucid dreaming is conscious dreaming. The ability to actively 
control the course and content of ones dreams. Pat and I 
experimented with it long ago. I was able to fully control the 
events, actions, and course of my dreams for a period of 
approximately one week. For me it was difficult, and required 
the practice highly disciplined mental exercises which were 
tedious to maintain. I eventually stopped trying, and the 
ability to dream lucidly slipped away.

The experience was very insightful, empowering, and vivid. All 
the dreams stuck out like real world events, and I had no 
problems recalling them afterwards.

Pat may be able to tell you more about his experiences with 
Lucid dreaming.

There have been a few good books written on the subject if 
you're interested in giving it a serious try.


> > Have you seen the movie 'Flatliners'?
> I saw it.  I thought it was great. It didn't really try to 
> answer the questions of what lies beyond directly, just showed 
> the consequences of playing with fire.
I liked it so much that I bought a copy. I love those mind trip movies.

- Robert