[notime] Early posts/discussions regarding 'No Time/No Motion' - What does it mean to exist outside the 'matrix'?

[Robert Vaessen]

All -

As I mentioned in an early post to this list - I’m planning to re-post some of my previous ‘No Time’ conversations in the ‘Akinetochronism’ forum/mailing list.  Here’s one of the earliest discussions I engaged in with a correspondent. Your opinions are valuable - Please feel free to agree, disagree, or discuss the ‘No Time / No Motion’ ideas, but lets keep the conversation civil.

In this particular discussion/conversation Gary and I discuss the ideas of an existence outside ‘the matrix’. What is the ‘self’? Is there a ‘first’ node? What if you could view reality from a point of view that is ‘outside’ or ‘above’ the processing limitations that we are constrained by?

Hopefully your mail reader/email client allows you to see the ‘quoting’ levels in these two posts. In my email client, the levels of quotes result in different colors for the quotes of the correspondents (myself and Gary). Note that some ‘redaction’ has been applied to protect Gary’s identity. I didn’t edit his email, just omitted parts of our email conversation (as noted by the ‘redacted’ indicators). In the case of email addresses or full names, I simply omitted the full email address or name.

- Robert




Initial post:

> On Sep 15, 2003, at 20:18, garyr wrote:
> 
> Dear Rob.  Your essay is great.  A logical conclusion, if you carry on the thought, is that in the physical sense, we are both "dead" and alive.  "Dead" being before the first node, or being in a "spiritial" sense.  Alive being in the "physical" sense.  I had an undocumented NDE and experieced this "timelessness".  If one could "will" himself between the spiritial and physical, he/she would hold a power one could only describe, for lack of a better term, as "Cosmic".  Gary
> R.

My reply:

> On Sep 19, 2003, at 18:27, Robert L. Vaessen wrote:
> 
> Gary -
> 
> [redacted] Questions about Gary and his location [/redacted]
> 
> I'm glad you enjoyed my dissertation on the non-existence of time (and motion). I don't quite follow you on the 'Dead' and 'Alive' analogy, in which you suppose a state of 'before the first node' I don't subscribe to this for one simple reason. The use of the term 'before' is contradictory to the notion of 'no such thing as time' It implies a beginning and end, a linear timeline. The exact thing I'm arguing against.
> 
> There are no beginning nodes. Individual 'selves' (human consciousness) are not defined by infinite nodal experience within the static matrix. Individual selves are defined by limited sub-sets of specific nodes within the matrix. Our experiences within the static matrix are defined in a linear, contiguous fashion. We can only experience the static matrix in a linear and contiguous fashion (processing/experiencing one node after another in a sequential manner), that's why we keep coming back to terms/concepts like 'before'. We are unable to experience the matrix in any other manner, and have no frame of referential experience outside the linear contiguous paradigm.
> 
> I would agree that the spiritual being or 'self' actually exists outside this matrix. Outside it in the sense that the self/spirit is not physical. Not composed of measurable quantifiable matter. The self or spirit is something of a collection of nodal experiences and rules regarding how those experiences may be/are sequenced.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the acronym 'NDE', but I agree with your last sentence. To control ones nodal (in my static matrix model) experiences would give one "cosmic" powers. Have you ever experienced 'Lucid' dreaming?
> 
> Perhaps you'll stop by and read some of the other stuff at my web site.
> 
> - Robert

Gary’s reply:

> On Sep 20, 2003, at 11:44, Gary R. wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the reply, Robert.  [redacted] Gary’s reply regarding his location/job [/redacted] I do understand your dissertation.  The NDE I referred to is "Near Death Experience" and I imagine it is somewhat like "lucid dreaming".  I will read more.  Gary

While composing this reposting, it occurs to me that Gary wasn’t really saying ‘before’ the first node; as in a state of time, but ‘before’ as in outside the limited processing of nodes. If we could experience the static and unchanging possible matter states (nodes) in a non-linear, non-contiguous fashion, we would as he put it - have a “Cosmic” point of view. It is the limited way in which we process the connected nodes (possible matter states) in a probability tree that confers the sense of ‘time’ and ‘motion’ that defines our view of reality. 

If we could instead step back and see the 'big picture' we would gain a more ‘Cosmic’ point of view and come to a fuller realization of the universe as I imagine it. All possibilities coexisting within the same space. Overlapping each other in separate probability spaces or dimensions.

Perhaps a Near Death Experience gave Gary the ability to perceive things in a way that is profoundly different than our typical point of view where ‘time’ and ‘motion’ limit our ability  to perceive the simultaneous and fuller view of reality.

This conversation with Gary informed and my later thoughts on this topic.

- Robert