[notime] No such thing as motion - How do you measure the speed of light?

[Robert Vaessen]

All -

As I mentioned in an early post to this list - I’m planning to re-post some of my previous ‘No Time’ conversations in this ‘Akinetochronism’ forum/mailing list.  Here (see below) is one of the early discussions I engaged in with a correspondent. Please feel free to agree, disagree, or discuss these ‘No Time / No Motion’ ideas.

In this particular discussion/conversation I received an email from ‘Zeradin’ - In that email he recommended a book and posed some questions and doubts about the speed of light. My response was channeled down a quantum tunnel...

Note that some ‘redaction’ has been applied to protect Will's identity. In the case of email addresses or full names, I simply omitted the full email address or name.

- Robert



Initial post: 

> On Oct 21, 2003, at 22:31, Zeradin wrote:
> 
> Hey, I like the writing, especially the usage of "move" and "take a minute" etc in describing they don't exist. Have to bring humor to these sort of things. I was just writing to tell you that you might be interested in "flatterland” by stewart(first name eludes me at the moment) it is a "sequel" but it really isn't, of flatland. It is more annoying, less philosphical more mathmatical, but FULL of ideas to build upon. Just a quick obvious one that's really simple and just popped into my mind whilst reading you thing:
> 
> "Does time really slow down if an object approaches the speed of light? I seriously doubt it.”
> 
> If an object is approaching the speed of light and passes by me and it's time is slowing down, I am going by it approaching the speed of light and my time is slowing down. Light moves at the speed of light, so it is stuck in one time forever, but it passes me, so I am going at the speed of light and I am stuck in one time. Flaws everywhere. Anyway. I'm more into math and science so I could explain away my very points... but I'm not going to, because while I believe me, I still think I'd be wrong.
> 
> Peace and light,
> -Zeradin


My reply:

> On Oct 22, 2003, at 17:18, Robert L. Vaessen <robert at robsworld.org> wrote:
> 
> Zeradin -
> 
> Thanks for the email. I hope you enjoyed your stay at Rob's World! Perhaps you'll stop by again, to check out some of the other pages.
> 
> Thanks for the book suggestion. I wasn't aware of 'Flatterland' by Ian Stewart. I'll have to add it to my books to buy list.

I purchased and read ‘Flatterland’ by Ian Stewart. I found it interesting, but nowhere near the brilliance of ‘Planiverse’ by A.K. Dewdney or it’s inspiration Flatland (and Sphereland) by Edwin A. Abbott.  For more of the books I’ve read (on the subject of time/physics/temporal physics/metaphysics/theoretical math/book about time: <http://www.robsworld.org/books/%20Physics:Temporal%20Physics:Metaphysics:Theoretical%20Math:Books%20about%20time/index.html>

> As for the speed of light being a standard; Not so fast, quantum boy. Experiments done at Berkeley university in the 90's have basically struck down the universal constant.

Given my disbelief in motion, the ‘speed’ of light is something of a strange standard in my opinion.  Isn’t the speed of all things relative only to the observer?  How can we measure any speed and expect it to be a constant given the fact that we would first need to establish a ‘reference’ standard that is know to be non-moving? Is anything in our universe ‘non-moving’ in the standard sense?  If we could establish a standard basis for stationary reference, then we might be able to have a relevant discussion regarding the ‘speed’ of any particular thing.
 
> A commonly known Quantum effect called tunneling is responsible for some amazing results. Quantum tunneling is routinely observed, studied and relied upon in modern electronics. The experiments performed at Berkeley involved photonic quantum tunneling.
> 
> Scientists released singular photons, projecting them towards various barriers. The Quantum tunneling effect allows some of the photons to actually pass through the barrier and make it to the other side. When the photon does so, it borrows energy from nearby particles, reaches a higher than normal energy state, passes through the barrier, and then gives the energy back to nearby particles in order to it's normal energy state.

Once again, with regards to these odd quantum effects, I wonder how we establish the ‘identity’ of a specific photon?  How do we know that any one particular photon is observed, accelerated, measured?  is the nature of photons/for that matter any of the constituent elements of a particle so unique that we can observe and tag specific elements as if they were individuals with a unique signature?  Can scientists really tell the difference between one photon and the next?

> When scientists measured how long it took for photons to travel through these barriers, they found that photon's which passed through the barrier actually arrived before the photons that traveled to the sensor along an unobstructed path. As these experiments were conducted in a vacuum, the results were exhilerating to say the least.

Perhaps it is the ‘information’ that travels faster than light? If the information could be transmitted faster than light, then a ‘new’ element could be constructed (from available elements at the destination) to carry the energy in a way that is observed as the ‘same’ particle/element?

> Scientists calculated that the photon's received a 70% energy boost as they traveled through the barrier. The experiment has been duplicated numerous times, and the duration of the event has been confirmed on all the tests. The photon's actually traveled faster than the conventional speed of light.
> 
> So much for Einsteins Generalized Theory of Relativity!
> 
> Quatum physics has been around a long time (since the early 20th century), and we're still learning more and more about it every day. As a matter of fact there have been other superluminal proofs besides the quantum tunneling effect I've described. If you do a search on superluminal or faster than light, you'll find plenty of articles to satisfy the skeptic.
> 
> Here's something else to ponder...
> 
> How long does now last? At what rate does time pass?
> 
> - Robert

More about quantum tunneling: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling>
Gunter Nimtz: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Günter_Nimtz>



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