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On Sunday, March 17, 2002, at 08:07 , Rob Garrity wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2002, at 02:29 AM, Robert L. Vaessen wrote:
If the consciousness can reside outside the physical, what are
its limitations when outside the brain. Do the
limitations/laws we've been talking about change when the
consciousness is free from the brain/body? Are the limitations
imposed by the capabilities/limitations of our brain?
Good questions these. As I mentioned in one of my past
messages, I didn't see anything in your theory that interfered
with the main tenets of several religions. Rebirth suggests
that the soul transmigrates. Could that simply be 'us' freed of
our mortal coil and reinvested along another nodal pathway
wrapped in another 'life'.
Our ability to comprehend the matrix is limited by a series of
laws/limitations. Do those laws differ depending on the state
of our consciousness? Experiencing the matrix from within
(inhabiting a brain), or observing the matrix from outside
(Out of body)?
Certainly. As I mentioned earlier, these are not my original
ideas. The ideas we've been discussing include components of
religious and metaphysical teachings from as far back as man can
My ideas (the ideas I've been espousing) certainly reflect
religious teachings regarding the soul, transmigration,
Actually, I believe that traditional definitions discern a
difference between dreaming and unconscious. Once while skating
(without skates) on Pickerel lake, I hit a crack with my foot,
fell forward and whacked my head. The next thing I remember was
someone helping me get up. I had no recollection of how long I
was laying on the ice. According to Chuck (Eileens ex.) I was
out for about two minutes.
Yes. When I was little I was playing trapeze artist in the
milking parlor and fell and hit my head. I walked into the bulk
tank room and next thing I knew I was dreaming. Then I picked
myself off of the floor there. I don't know how long I was out.
But I was definitely out.
Have you ever been unconscious?
What's the difference between dreaming and unconscious?
Traditional definitions describe unconsciousness as having no
conscious recollection of self. Dreaming is seen as a
semiconscious state, there is some knowledge of self during
dreams. If you think about lucid dreaming you'll see how
dreaming can easily be grouped into the conscious state.
Perhaps you were unconscious, and then slipped into a dream state.
I would say very little. I think we lose our ability to
remember our dreaming based on the severity of the
unconsciousness. I know when I had my major operations (4 all
together, two heart, two neck) that going under and waking up
involves some light dreaming slipping in and coming out.
Anesthetics used during surgery usually suppress the conscious
mind, and no dreaming typically occurs. Electroencephalographs
of brains clearly show differences between the dreaming mind,
and a truly unconscious state. The dream state you experienced
occurs in the manner you described it. Dreaming just prior to
unconsciousness, and just prior to consciousness.
Here's a thought. Brain scans identify the so-called REM states
as the time when the mind dreams. What if it is only the time
when the mind passively records dreams. In other words it's a
symptom of dreaming, not dreaming directly. Can't answer this,
but I wonder if science can either.
REM is eye movement during the dream state. Dreaming is not
always accompanied by REM, but REM only occurs during dreaming.
REM is an easy way to detect whether a person is in a dream
state. No equipment necessary.
What about lucid dreaming?
I've never dreamed of Lucy... Or Jeannie for that matter...
Lucid dreaming is conscious dreaming. The ability to actively
control the course and content of ones dreams. Pat and I
experimented with it long ago. I was able to fully control the
events, actions, and course of my dreams for a period of
approximately one week. For me it was difficult, and required
the practice highly disciplined mental exercises which were
tedious to maintain. I eventually stopped trying, and the
ability to dream lucidly slipped away.
The experience was very insightful, empowering, and vivid. All
the dreams stuck out like real world events, and I had no
problems recalling them afterwards.
Pat may be able to tell you more about his experiences with
There have been a few good books written on the subject if
you're interested in giving it a serious try.
I saw it. I thought it was great. It didn't really try to
answer the questions of what lies beyond directly, just showed
the consequences of playing with fire.
Have you seen the movie 'Flatliners'?
I liked it so much that I bought a copy. I love those mind trip movies.